ACTU chief Sally McManus has been repeatedly pressed to reveal what she knew and when about alleged criminal behaviour within the CFMEU in a heated exchange on ABC TV.
Following reports of bikers acting as union reps, including one earning $250,000 a year as a health and safety officer, Ms McManus told 7.30 presenter Sarah Ferguson she had heard “rumours” about the CFMEU’s relationship with bikers.
Before the reports aired last weekend, controversial CFMEU president John Setka resigned as union secretary, a position he had held for 12 years.
When a photo of Ms McManus smiling next to Mr Setka and his then-wife Emma Walters resurfaced, the Australian Council of Trade Unions secretary said she was not aware of any alleged criminal behaviour within the CFMEU.
“I had heard rumors, but after the 60 Minutes program it is clear what is going to happen,” she said Tuesday evening.
“And once you know that organized crime is actually in a union, you have to take steps to do everything you can to get rid of it.”
Ferguson asked her what she should do when she heard the ‘rumours about the involvement of organised crime in the CFMEU construction department’.
But Ms McManus rejected that categorisation, saying she had ‘never heard any rumours of organised crime involvement.
ACTU head Sally McManus is pictured with CFMEU’s John Setka and his then wife Emma Walters
“There were Facebook posts from people claiming they were cycling or riding bicycles.”
Ms McManus said she had raised these issues with the ‘relevant leaders’ of the CFMEU at the time and had ‘made it very clear that there is no place for this in our trade union movement’.
However, this did not satisfy the persistent Ferguson and she continued to ask her stern questions.
“Have you done more than just report the existence of Facebook pages? Have you reported them to the police or other authorities,” she asked.
“At that time there were no allegations of any misconduct. The allegations of misconduct came out on Sunday night,” Ms McManus replied.
Ferguson resisted again, but this time in even stronger terms.
‘Are you saying that in the reports you have heard and the action you have taken, no further details have been provided to you or (CFMEU National Secretary Zach) Smith about the involvement of members or associates of motorcycle gangs in the activities of the CFMEU?’
Ms McManus said: ‘I was not given any information about that before the allegations were aired on (60 Minutes).’
But the 7.30 presenter still didn’t give up, asking if the ACTU boss was ‘ignoring the allegations against the CFMEU because he was afraid of the union’s power and influence’.
“Of course not,” said an angry Mrs. McManus. “I hereby say that we will stand up to organized crime.”
As Ferguson continued her argument, Ms McManus said: “I gave you those answers,” adding: “Sarah, it may surprise you (but) I don’t know much about motorcycle gangs …
“That’s not my area of expertise. If people pointed out a Facebook post with a picture of someone who they thought was connected to this or that, I immediately brought it up with people. I didn’t know myself whether that was true.”
There were mixed reactions online to Ferguson’s dogged attempts to tell the story, which included repeating the same question over and over.
“Sarah Ferguson has proven she is a real journalist. We wouldn’t be having this conversation if she had dragged Dutton over the coals, would we?” wrote one person on X.
ABC’s Sarah Ferguson (pictured) was adamant in her interview with ACTU’s Sally McManus on Tuesday night
CFMEU boss John Setka (pictured) resigned last Friday evening
Another wrote that ‘Sarah Ferguson is a treasure… Regardless of political background, we must hold our parties and organizations accountable for misconduct.’
However, some felt the ABC host was too loud and went too far.
“It was a disaster for Sarah Ferguson. Not for Sally McManus,” one person wrote.
Another wrote that Ferguson “continued to make unsubstantiated claims.”
